We are with CM for a month now trying to sell (what CM claims) "your own services, we work in the background".
Today i lost my first and biggest client, guess why..
New setup of users sends a mail to user with "from" address firstname.lastname@example.org.
Client wonders what's the domain createsend.com anyway, Googles for some seconds.. and reaches CampaignMonitor web site.
He calls me, ask me what the bullshit about "my services" are about .. and i really don't know what to say.
Good bye, end of story he says.
Well, there is not much more to add. It's self explanatory
Hi alex611, we're really sorry to hear about you losing your client like this. It's a highly regrettable situation, which we want to do our best to not have repeated. As a result, we've upped our efforts to try and disconnect the association that Google is making with createsend.com and Campaign Monitor. It's really not great that Google is our weakest link, considering our efforts to keep the product as white label as possible.
I've also requested on your behalf that we use a custom domain for the From address on our invite emails. On both counts, we'll keep you updated as we progress.
In regards to approaching this issue delicately with clients, we've found that many clients are happy to use the designer's platform of choice if they're being given something extra on top of access to the software. Offering email design services, consultation or bundling email marketing with say, web design are good ways to keep clients on board. More often than not, clients are happy paying more than base rates for the time and expertise a designer can offer. Our Agency Toolkit has great tips on selling email marketing and maintaining a solid client-designer relationship.
Sorry again for this, Alex - we'll be trying our hardest to keep up our side of the bargain here. If there's anything else we can do to assist, don't hesitate to ask.
it is not that we only lost this client for your services but we provide additional services which could have been canceled too, due to this bad experience.
I thought that you will take emergency steps to fix this issue, but i can still see that setting up a new user is still the same approach, no "custom domain" available.
When can we expect changes to take place before offering your application again to our clients?
Hi alex, while offering custom domains for all clients is on the radar, it's actually a fairly big change to make in the app. While we're keen on getting this happening, we don't have a timeline as yet, I'm sorry to say. Absolutely, we'll let you know as we progress.
Sorry for the wait - we'll be doing our best to make our app better for resellers in the months ahead.
just return from hollidays and, thanks, to this post, I discover the new setup procedure.
New setup of users sends a mail to user with "from" address email@example.com.
It is the craziest idea ever and you have to remove it immediately. You are doing well with "If you have any question contact firstname.lastname@example.org, so why shooting at us with that insane email@example.com.
Sorry, but I cannot accept that (and I think many other designers and agencies can't either) and will keep asking again and again until you'll fix it.
It is URGENT !
All your others arguments make sense but you have to let us choose what kind of relation we want with our customers.
Do not decide for us, please.
I tested deeper the new procedure and foud out that after having accepted the invitation and finishig up the procedure, the new client receive a confirmation email "You're all set up".
Good news the "from" is my proper name with my proper email :)
So pleas, do the same with all automatics email our clients may receive.
Hey there Marc, due to deliverability issues with sending to the same domain as you're sending from (but using our mail server to actually send the invite), internal invites will come from the createsend.com domain. However as you've noticed, invies to external domains will be from your name and email address. :)
I'm really sorry for not updating this thread earlier - we fixed this issue on 12 July, in response to the earlier post. We should have made this new behaviour clear here immediately after the fix was made.
Thanks for answering.
I am very sorry but I don't see what is our gain with that new procedure.
I appreciated Campaign Monitor because it permitted me to manage clients accounts. I felt much more comfortable when I created them myself and sent them id and pass. For me, that new procedure is a regression.
The less you interfere between us and our customers, the better.
Yet, I found a way to solve this problem. (a trick of mine)
Remains others problems :
If a client forget his password either reset procedure or "contact" us
he will get a "firstname.lastname@example.org" wich is another pain…
I feel not as secure I was before and wonder if Campaign Monitor policy will remain to be a partner for us, graphic designers or agencies.
And it is not the fact you've chosen recently to open to the public your template builder who will reassure me.
The total disparition of "createsend.com" and replacement by an "invisible" domain
would be a great step in the better direction.
Hey there Marc, thanks for the constructive feedback there. We have discussed internally alternatives to the createsend.com domain. Also, we've discussed allowing designers to reset client/person passwords, to solve some of the management and whitelabelling issues you've described.
In both instances, I've passed on your notes here and will keep you posted as we continue to develop our team management functionality. We're listening, so by all means keep letting us know what's on your mind here.
Not only the createsend.com is a crazy idea.
The new pricing options are a mess too.. i am sorry, but i start loosing track with you guys.
No announcements prior to major changes, no real discussion with your partners (that's what i understood i am to you), and just a simple "sorry" when a client of ours is lost. I am referring to my post here.
Real pros would try to help me get the client back.
Only short time with you and already very very disappointed.
Just a short note: i am developing applications for the hospitality industry quite a long time, and do also offer white labeled solutions.
To arrange payment gateways where "partners" can sign up to have their clients charged.. while i charge my "partners"... is one of the easiest solutions in year 2012.
This in regard to another annoying option which is called "mark up and let your clients pay", but you'll need PayPal (only PayPal) for that to get your mark-up paid.. which is kiddy stuff.
No serious company out there depends on PayPal only today.
Hey there Alex, I'm really sorry that we've let you down on both occasions here. In regards to the earlier issue, we rapidly pushed through changes to our invites, based on your feedback. I also responded to your earlier post, as we're willing to discuss how we can assist your business with this transition.
We've tried to make our pricing tiers as accessible to new clients as possible, while grandfathering existing clients that could have been impacted the most. However, we understand that we could have done a better job of communicating all the details well before the changeover. That was certainly a mistake on our part, which we're sorry for.
Real pros would try to help me get the client back.
Respectfully, what action would you have recommended on our part? I ask, as feedback like this is vital to us improving our service. If we've missed the mark here, please continue to tell us straight - we want to proactively make our service a solid choice for both designers and their clients alike.
Rosanne, you might asking yourself why i am trying so hard to make something work for me.. which obviously does not!
It's because i am 20 years in my business and i got my clients used that i guarantee my services with my word.
They are huge international hotel chains and you can not just go and tell them "sorry".
We made great efforts to promote the email campaigner with you and now we are facing the difficulty how to keep the service alive, after the mess you caused to us.
We will not be reliable any more and it will sound like a joke if we go tell our clients that this service has been abandoned.
A sorry (again) does not really help us.
You could (instead of grandfathering some partners of yours).. grandfather partner prices at the time of sign up with you.
That i would understand better.
Actually, this comment would better fit to my other post https://www.campaignmonitor.com/forums/post/25890/#p25890
I need you to solve this situation for me, please.
Hi Alex, thanks for clarifying this for us. I'll discuss with the team what can be done in regards to grandfathering and certainly let you know if I have any updates here. I know it may not mean much to you, but we are sorry for causing you this hardship.
Add me to the list of so called partners that feels somewhat undervalued about the way the new pricing was announced.
I've talked at length with support at how the new pricing structure just sucks in the real world. It doesn't matter that the prices are cheaper for our customers in most circumstances. Back when the unlimited plans were introduced, this was a great move in simplifying things, as our clients just didn't get why they needed to pay per email. Unlimited plans solved this.
We want real simple pricing, the moment it get's too complicated the competition get the upper hand. The pricing has just taken on another dimension and the average guy just doesn't get that.
We are outta here I'm afraid, unless there is an option to grandfather pricing for resellers that came on board before the pricing change. We have not changed our pricing plans and are just taking the hit rather than confuse our customers, it's our loss in the short term but you can be sure we won't continue to take the hit.
Hi neekster, were really sorry that we've complicated things for you and your clients, when in fact it was our intention to really make our pricing more accessible. Unfortunately, we don't have plans to grandfather plans for all resellers at this stage, however we'll be sure to keep you updated on this one.
Personally, I'm very sorry its come to parting ways here, especially as what we have to offer to resellers isn't set in stone. If there's anything else we can do to make our service more valuable to you and your clients, be sure to let us know.
Sorry didn't see your reply before.
To be honest I looked at the pricing again, and the alternatives on the market, and found a way to make it work for us. Really the way we found to make it work was to really not make much margin at all, but we can live with that if our clients get an awesome newsletter solution.
Part of that process was no longer billing customers ourselves and instead have customers pay you guys via credit card etc. This way we recoup admin time and things kind of balance out.
But that brings me right back to the topic of this thread (which I kinda hijacked really).
I just created a new account, and popped my credit card details in, just to simulate the whole process a customer would see.
We are a branding company, that's what we do, so for starters in the whole process, there's way too much createsend.com, and very little, if any mention of us.
The initial activation email actually has no mention of us whatsoever, other than a name at the bottom, no mention of brand. If I understand correctly, if I had used a domain other than ours, our email address would have been in there, but how many clients would even notice that I'm not sure.
If someone queries what createsend.com is on the credit card statement it's an epic failure. Most organisations will do this at some point, that's to be expected. If they use a browser like chrome it's all to easy to end up in google search results not the actual site, and that's returning Campaign Monitor, that's really cool.
For the tiny margins that we now have to make in order to remain competitive, I'm not sure the tradeoff is worth it. Despite campaign monitor being far superior to the likes of Mail Chimp, clients without our help tend to pick it every time, they don't know any better. It would be nice if the whole system made it a little bit more worth our while.
Hey there Nick, no troubles at all, your feedback has been on theme and very much appreciated.
If I understand correctly, if I had used a domain other than ours, our email address would have been in there, but how many clients would even notice that I'm not sure.
This is correct - if you're sending an invite within your domain (ie. from yourdomain.com to yourdomain.com), then a @createsend.com address will be used. Otherwise, it will come from the designer's @yourdomain.com email address.
If someone queries what createsend.com is on the credit card statement it's an epic failure
Behind the scenes, we're doing what we can to stop Google from making the Campaign Monitor - Createsend.com connection. It's a curious battle. On the flipside, I've had resellers tell me that they're honest to their clients that they're using a 3rd party app, as it simply saves these sort of questions down the line - Pronto is an example. In their case, they're confident that the services they provide are indispensable to small businesses, especially as their clients really don't have the time/skills to send campaigns, or take control of their online marketing. I'm not saying this at all to discredit your position, but just to provide another point of view.
In regards to margins, we are constantly discussing how to make Campaign Monitor a more attractive proposition to resellers like yourself. Please watch this space, as I'll be sure to update this thread if we alter our pricing.
Thanks Nick, as always, we're keen to hear your experiences from the front line.
I was pleased to see that the email address is displayed for my domain when invites are sent to clients own domains. Personally, I'd rather just create the user account, and send them a message myself, which I accomplish by using an address at my own domain, log in to that account, set up the password, then change the email address while logged in as that user (kind of a pain when it should be relatively easy for CM to offer that capability to agency users).
HOWEVER, I was greatly disappointed to see that if a client forgets their password (that never happens, right?), then the email sent to reset it does NOT come from the whitelabel domain, but rather help@ CS. Can you please make the password reset work like the rest of the automated emails so we can close the loop on this issue?
Hey there BraceRosso, thank you for catching this. I've just given two issues a boost on your behalf - both the option to both change the domain name on all notifications, plus the ability of designers to perform a password reset on behalf of their clients. Hopefully we'll give these some special thought in the future, as we certainly haven't done everything we can do to make things smooth for rebranders. Watch this space, as we'll hopefully have some updates for you.
While we're at it, I found it strange that I could not edit the email address of a user. That field is only available if you're logged in at that user - which is not possible for a whitelabel designer if the user changed or specified their own password. Also, can new users only login using their email addresses instead of a user name now? I am glad to see that old user names still work, but I haven't figured out how to give a user name to new users, only email addresses.
Hey again, you're correct - admins cannot change a person's email address, once the new person been added. Out of curiosity, in what scenario would you want to change a person's email address, once an invite has been accepted? Keep in mind that you can send out new invites, in the case that a client/person is having serious trouble logging in.
We've moved over to using email addresses instead of usernames as of the introduction of multiple users, so it's only possible to specify email addresses now. We've done this to maintain the uniqueness of logins, as well as make people's login credentials less likely to be forgotten - it's easier to forget an arbitrary username, over your personal email address.
Thanks again, BraceRosso - if you have any questions about the above, be sure to let us know :)
I wanted to change their email address so I could set up their account or change their password without them needing to receive any of the system emails, particularly if I needed to change their password. Once all this CS domain stuff is straightened out, I guess I won't have to worry about it.
In some cases, if there's a user changing, I suppose it might be easier to change the email address and reset the password myself rather than sending a new invite to the new user and asking them to go through all the clicks and system generated emails.
Thank you so much for explaining this - it's much appreciated. As I mentioned earlier, we'll certainly look at reducing the instances in which the CS domain is used and keep you updated :)
Just to throw this out there, but what about giving the client an email address at your domain? So, for example, email@example.com. You can then receive the email and forward on.
Because it's ridiculous to have to explain to a client why they can't use their own email address. And a new discovery:
If a user makes a mistake on their login, the "contact us" link points to CS, even if they're trying to log on to a white label domain.
We really need a better system for client/user controls.
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